Discussion:
Jupiter
(too old to reply)
Troy Piggins
2009-10-23 15:43:38 UTC
Permalink
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.

Taken with a 8" f/10 scope with a 2.5x powermate (like a
teleconvertor) giving it an equivalent focal length of around
5000mm. Camera was a DBK21 CCD camera.

The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.

Loading Image...

All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
--
Troy Piggins
Damn 35 F. Rain - Staying Warm Inside Is Winning Today
2009-10-23 16:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
Taken with a 8" f/10 scope with a 2.5x powermate (like a
teleconvertor) giving it an equivalent focal length of around
5000mm. Camera was a DBK21 CCD camera.
The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
Much depends too on "seeing" conditions. The atmospheric stability. Most
times you just have to wait and hope for the best days. The very same
perfectly collimated optics can provide a draw-dropping 3D-looking view of
Saturn one day, and an irregular mushy blob the next. Look into the
sharpening techniques that web-cam astrophotographers use, by combining
details from many many frames to virtually look through the turbulent
atmosphere, capturing and combining those bits of each image that are
stable and sharp.

You might also try stopping down the aperture of your telescope during bad
seeing conditions. A larger aperture means that your telescope is trying to
image through larger lower-frequency areas of atmospheric turbulence. If
the turbulence that night is mostly of the lower-frequency variety it will
help to filter it out. I keep a 6" mask handy for those times to put on my
16" scope. Apodizing masks also cure things on some days for planetary
imaging.
Troy Piggins
2009-10-23 21:21:39 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Troy Piggins
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
Much depends too on "seeing" conditions. The atmospheric stability. Most
times you just have to wait and hope for the best days. The very same
perfectly collimated optics can provide a draw-dropping 3D-looking view of
Saturn one day, and an irregular mushy blob the next. Look into the
sharpening techniques that web-cam astrophotographers use, by combining
details from many many frames to virtually look through the turbulent
atmosphere, capturing and combining those bits of each image that are
stable and sharp.
Yes, this image was stacked from around 2500 frames of an avi
file using Registax. Suspect that's the technique you're
referring to.
You might also try stopping down the aperture of your telescope during bad
seeing conditions. A larger aperture means that your telescope is trying to
image through larger lower-frequency areas of atmospheric turbulence. If
the turbulence that night is mostly of the lower-frequency variety it will
help to filter it out. I keep a 6" mask handy for those times to put on my
16" scope. Apodizing masks also cure things on some days for planetary
imaging.
How does one stop down the aperture of a fixed aperture scope?
The bare scope is f/10. With the 2.5x powermate it becomes an
equivalent f/25. I haven't heard of people using those masks
you're referring to. I'll look into it. Thanks.
--
Troy Piggins
Damn 35 F. Rain - Staying Warm Inside Is Winning Today
2009-10-24 03:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
How does one stop down the aperture of a fixed aperture scope?
The bare scope is f/10. With the 2.5x powermate it becomes an
equivalent f/25. I haven't heard of people using those masks
you're referring to. I'll look into it. Thanks.
A simple round hole cut into some opaque plastic, cardboard, or thin
aluminum sheeting will suffice. Placed over the opening of your telescope.
For a refractor this is easy (no central obstruction). Just place it
concentric with the optical axis.

For a reflector the choice is not so easy. The secondary mirror's size is
optimized for the light path and f/ratio.

Larger reflector telescopes can use an aperture mask offset to one side, so
as to use an unobstructed region of the mirror between the outside diameter
of the primary and the outside diameter of the secondary, and situated
between the spider-vanes. Consider too the number of spider-vanes you have.
If 4 vanes you will have to cut your mask smaller so its diameter fits
within an open quadrant between any two spider-vanes.

The huge plus of this for planetary imaging is that now you have an
obstruction-free telescope. Of reduced aperture but for bright subjects and
due to "seeing" problems this can be a huge plus too. Many people buy 12"
or larger reflectors with the intent to only use it as a stopped-down
off-axis planetary imager. (8"-10" telescopes too, but you then start to
lose resolution due to primary size alone when stopped-down off-axis.)
There is a huge cost-savings in buying pre-fabricated easy to make
manufactured telescopes much greater than the size needed, as opposed to
buying or building an off-axis (asymmetric) reflecting telescope design
(see below), or prohibitively expensive refractor of those diameters which
is now fraught with CA problems.

With the aperture offset you are no longer plagued with diffraction from
secondary mirror and its spider supports. Since this is a reflector, you
now have a telescope that is free of all chromatic-aberration, making it
much better than a refractor of the same size (large and astronomically
expensive refractors bought with planetary imaging in mind). Special
asymmetric reflector telescopes are designed this way, but grinding and
figuring the offset curvatures are extremely difficult and many ingenious
methods were tried and found to try to circumvent this fabrication problem.
One of the more ingenious is to grind an achromat corrective lens for use
with a standard parabolic mirror set at an angle. This achromat ground to
the proper figure by using a creative method found for the home telescope
builder, but then you introduce CA problems. Often, to simplify things,
they'll just buy a much larger pre-figured mirror and then cut it up into 2
or 3 smaller offset-telescope primaries. (I don't think I could bring
myself to do that, even though I have the means. It would be like cutting a
favorite child into 2's or 3's.)

By using an offset aperture mask on a large telescope you now have the best
of 3 worlds. An exceptional planetary imager (the same as a prohibitively
expensive asymmetric reflector telescope), no CA problems as exists in all
refractors, and when the mask is removed you now have a very very nice
deep-sky light-bucket.

Aside: This is precisely why I chose the size telescope I now have (16"
dia.). The 16" also not chosen arbitrarily due to costs nor other issues.
When researching I found that due to even the most pristine seeing
conditions (unless I am on a mountain-peak), that without adaptive optics
the resolution of this size telescope is the same as that of Mt. Palomar's
200" telescope. The weakest link now being caused by the atmosphere itself.
There was no appreciable gain in resolution by buying larger. Light-grasp
yes, resolution no. (Keep in mind too, this was before image-stacking
became popularized to increase resolution. And since I was going to
primarily use it for visual astronomy this didn't enter into my
decision-making equations. Then, nor now.)

Another plus to an offset mask is that you can rotate the aperture-mask to
find a "sweet spot" of your mirror where the figure is the most pristine.
This can greatly improve on its 1/8th to 1/20th wavelength of light
tolerance across its whole surface.

For smaller telescopes you can try an aperture reducing mask placed
concentric with the axis of the telescope, but then the smaller you stop
down the aperture the more that diffraction becomes an issue due to the
larger percentage of central obstruction vs. the useful light path.

Experiment.
Noons
2009-10-24 12:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
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Post by Troy Piggins
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Sometimes I wish I could retire in a place like Maree or Oodnadatta and enjoy
clear, cloudless skyes all year round. I do recall reading a newspaper in the
campsite by starlight alone, no moon! Beer (Red Back) ain't half bad over there
either... ;)
Post by Troy Piggins
Yes, this image was stacked from around 2500 frames of an avi
file using Registax. Suspect that's the technique you're
referring to.
Did you get that size image from the 8" scope and sensor alone or did you add a
converter and/or digital resize?

I'm toying around with the idea of a 8" or 10" dobsonian, want to get a feel for
what's possible and what's needed. Kids have been bugging me to get back into
this stuff...
Outing Trolls
2009-10-24 11:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
Noons
2009-10-24 13:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Look! Another Troll!
2009-10-24 14:29:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
decent telescope optics.

Some of the most stable pristine skies can be found in less-inhabited
regions of places like Florida, where any part of the land is only a couple
hundred miles from either coastline. The skies deep in the Everglades for
example, easily rival the night-skies you will see in some remote national
forest at the very top of the Rocky Mountains. (Viewed and photographed the
night-skies at both, so I have first-hand experience with these locations
for night-sky seeing conditions.) Ocean water has generally laminar
air-flows, most of the pollutants have dropped out of the sky--any coming
from other land-masses when airflow direction is inland. The fluctuations
in humidity levels (a killer of air quality and seeing for astronomy), are
usually much more gradual when dealing with ocean air as opposed to inland
continental air.

This is why the most favored large telescope installations are built
furthest from large land masses, as high as possible (when possible), and
surrounded by or very near the largest bodies of ocean water with
prevailing inland air-flows. This is precisely why they choose the Hawaiian
Islands for some of the larger and more advanced observatories not too long
ago. The upcoming mega-telescopes now in construction are being built near
the ocean in places like the coastal deserts in Chile near the Pacific
shore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Telescope

Since he is doing planetary imaging, light-pollution is not much of a
concern, unless he gets into the outer planets (which won't show much in a
telescope of that size anyway). Or if he'd be trying to do long exposures
in place like downtown Times-Square New-York City.

Had you said, "Pity you can't move all that gear to a coastal region
further from light pollution." Then you might have been perceived as having
an iota of credible experience with either subject, photography or
astronomy. Since you gave him the worst advice possible concerning this
field of interest, there's only one conclusion possible.

Did you learn anything today? You useless fuck of an ignorant troll.
Eric Stevens
2009-10-24 23:49:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:29:35 -0500, Look! Another Troll!
Post by Look! Another Troll!
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
decent telescope optics.
Some of the most stable pristine skies can be found in less-inhabited
regions of places like Florida, where any part of the land is only a couple
hundred miles from either coastline. The skies deep in the Everglades for
example, easily rival the night-skies you will see in some remote national
forest at the very top of the Rocky Mountains. (Viewed and photographed the
night-skies at both, so I have first-hand experience with these locations
for night-sky seeing conditions.) Ocean water has generally laminar
air-flows, most of the pollutants have dropped out of the sky--any coming
from other land-masses when airflow direction is inland. The fluctuations
in humidity levels (a killer of air quality and seeing for astronomy), are
usually much more gradual when dealing with ocean air as opposed to inland
continental air.
This is why the most favored large telescope installations are built
furthest from large land masses, as high as possible (when possible), and
surrounded by or very near the largest bodies of ocean water with
prevailing inland air-flows. This is precisely why they choose the Hawaiian
Islands for some of the larger and more advanced observatories not too long
ago. The upcoming mega-telescopes now in construction are being built near
the ocean in places like the coastal deserts in Chile near the Pacific
shore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Telescope
Since he is doing planetary imaging, light-pollution is not much of a
concern, unless he gets into the outer planets (which won't show much in a
telescope of that size anyway). Or if he'd be trying to do long exposures
in place like downtown Times-Square New-York City.
Had you said, "Pity you can't move all that gear to a coastal region
further from light pollution." Then you might have been perceived as having
an iota of credible experience with either subject, photography or
astronomy. Since you gave him the worst advice possible concerning this
field of interest, there's only one conclusion possible.
Did you learn anything today? You useless fuck of an ignorant troll.
Ignorance is mutual.

Here is the lanscape not far from Oodnadata
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eric_the_gray/3487169197/sizes/l/

Hardly ever any wind. Hardly ever any rain (those clouds are
exceptional). Hardly anyone or anything for many many miles in any
direction. Lovely flat terrain over which the air flow stabilises.
Oodnadata is not an entirely silly suggestion, except for the thought
of living there.



Eric Stevens
Noons
2009-10-25 01:09:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
Ignorance is mutual.
"mutual"? The stupid troll jumps in with crap from Florida in a post discussing
Australia and the ignorance is "mutual"?
How about one-sided, from the stupid aioe troll?
Post by Eric Stevens
Oodnadata is not an entirely silly suggestion, except for the thought
of living there.
Oh, so that is not ignorance, now?
As for living there, in retirement it's probably not a bad place at all.
Which is what was said. Care to read properly instead of jumping to conclusions?
Eric Stevens
2009-10-25 05:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Eric Stevens
Ignorance is mutual.
"mutual"? The stupid troll jumps in with crap from Florida in a post discussing
Australia and the ignorance is "mutual"?
How about one-sided, from the stupid aioe troll?
Post by Eric Stevens
Oodnadata is not an entirely silly suggestion, except for the thought
of living there.
Oh, so that is not ignorance, now?
As for living there, in retirement it's probably not a bad place at all.
Which is what was said. Care to read properly instead of jumping to conclusions?
Jeez!

You were the one who mentioned Oodnadata.

I thought I was coming to your aid.

Who needs enemies with friends like you?



Eric Stevens
Noons
2009-10-25 10:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
You were the one who mentioned Oodnadata.
Exactly.
Post by Eric Stevens
I thought I was coming to your aid.
Really? By claiming "ignorance is mutual"? When it is obvious it is the florida
troll that has no clue what/where he's talking about?
Post by Eric Stevens
Who needs enemies with friends like you?
Precisely.
Eric Stevens
2009-10-25 20:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Eric Stevens
You were the one who mentioned Oodnadata.
Exactly.
Post by Eric Stevens
I thought I was coming to your aid.
Really? By claiming "ignorance is mutual"? When it is obvious it is the florida
troll that has no clue what/where he's talking about?
It was only obvious to those who already knew Oodnadata. I'm willing
to bet that the troll didn't have the faintest idea of what you were
talking about. That's why I said 'ignorance is mutual' (whatever he
said about you applied at least equally well to him) and went on to
post the photograph of the landscape. I could have posted photographs
of the town itself but that would have given the troll to talk about
the disturbance created by all those people..
Post by Noons
Post by Eric Stevens
Who needs enemies with friends like you?
Precisely.
At least now I know what I'm dealing with. :-(



Eric Stevens
Noons
2009-10-25 22:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Eric Stevens
I thought I was coming to your aid.
Really?  By claiming "ignorance is mutual"? When it is obvious it is the florida
troll that has no clue what/where he's talking about?
It was only obvious to those who already knew Oodnadata. I'm willing
to bet that the troll didn't have the faintest idea of what you were
talking about.
So, that's why you claimed mutual ignorance? Funny kind of "mutual"
you have: one side doesn't have a clue, so both sides are ignorant.
Right...
Post by Eric Stevens
That's why I said 'ignorance is mutual' (whatever he
said about you applied at least equally well to him)
Oh please!
Post by Eric Stevens
post the photograph of the landscape. I could have posted photographs
of the town itself but that would have given the troll to talk about
the disturbance created by all those people..
LOL! At last: some good humour!
Eric Stevens
2009-10-26 08:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Eric Stevens
Post by Eric Stevens
I thought I was coming to your aid.
Really?  By claiming "ignorance is mutual"? When it is obvious it is the florida
troll that has no clue what/where he's talking about?
It was only obvious to those who already knew Oodnadata. I'm willing
to bet that the troll didn't have the faintest idea of what you were
talking about.
So, that's why you claimed mutual ignorance? Funny kind of "mutual"
you have: one side doesn't have a clue, so both sides are ignorant.
Right...
Post by Eric Stevens
That's why I said 'ignorance is mutual' (whatever he
said about you applied at least equally well to him)
Oh please!
Post by Eric Stevens
post the photograph of the landscape. I could have posted photographs
of the town itself but that would have given the troll to talk about
the disturbance created by all those people..
LOL! At last: some good humour!
I think you owe me an apology. If not that, you should at least cool
down.

Just to make the troll's day, here are two photographs of Oodnadata

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

As you can see, it is at the crest of a local mountain.



Eric Stevens
Noons
2009-10-26 12:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
Just to make the troll's day, here are two photographs of Oodnadata
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2569/4046184792_786f7e7b02_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2427/4045436617_24f519fca5_b.jpg
As you can see, it is at the crest of a local mountain.
Hehehe! Been there, done that.
Back in the 80s. Also in the same trip: Pedirka, Dalhousie, Purni Bore,
Finke River, Hamilton, MtConnor, Uluru, Katatjuta, Peterman ranges, Docker
River. And a heap of other places on the way in and out. Got a few scanned in
my gallery. There are a lot more.
I miss the days when we could take a long travel holiday in this country...
Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
2009-10-25 02:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Stevens
Hardly ever any wind. Hardly ever any rain (those clouds are
exceptional). Hardly anyone or anything for many many miles in any
direction. Lovely flat terrain over which the air flow stabilises.
Oodnadata is not an entirely silly suggestion, except for the thought
of living there.
Sounds almost perfect, doesn't it? To an ignorant troll perhaps.

But like all useless trolls that know nothing about astronomy nor
photography, trolls who also know nothing about meteorology nor how land
cools off and heats up quicker with larger thermal contrasts (compared to
large bodies of water), they can't comprehend how this huge contrast in
thermal energies are fed into the atmosphere directly above the land .This
huge thermal turmoil occurring twice during each diurnal period is what
causes most of the bad seeing conditions for the required purposes. Flying
out to any appreciable distance over the ocean in a sail-plane is certain
death for the pilot for the exact same reasons.

On a smaller scale, this too is why you should never peer through a
telescope from inside a house that is aimed through an open window. The
thermal contrast between indoor and outdoor temperatures as the air is
exchanged between the two robs your telescope of most of its resolving
power. And is also why observatories are never heated where the telescope
resides. My own 16" diameter telescope mirror can take up to 3 hours to
reach very good thermal equilibrium before the rising or sinking air in the
telescope tube dies down enough for more perfect seeing conditions. (Day
vs. night temperatures dependent.)

Your post is a worthy display of a perfect example of what ignorance means.
Post some more just like it. (As you will do and have done so often.) I
don't believe your fellow trolls have quite caught on to what ignorance
means. Perhaps they can learn from you by example.

(A troll learn? To be honest, I typed that for my own hearty-laugh
benefit.)
Noons
2009-10-25 04:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
But like all useless trolls that know nothing about astronomy nor
photography, trolls who also know nothing about meteorology nor how land
cools off and heats up quicker with larger thermal contrasts (compared to
large bodies of water), they can't comprehend how this huge contrast in
thermal energies are fed into the atmosphere directly above the land .This
<rest of demented raving clipped>

And of course you are an expert in photography, meteorology and astronomy.
One wanders why you're posting as an unidentified troll from a well known troll
site, instead of working in Chile.
Ah yes: there are no "observatories" in florida...

BWAHAHAHA!
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
resides. My own 16" diameter telescope mirror can take up to 3 hours to
You're confusing the mirror in your bathroom with a telescope mirror.
Careful: the aliens you're seeing are actually your nose hairs...
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
Your post is a worthy display of a perfect example of what ignorance means.
Your post is a perfect example of crass, ignorant trolling.
Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
2009-10-25 14:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
But like all useless trolls that know nothing about astronomy nor
photography, trolls who also know nothing about meteorology nor how land
cools off and heats up quicker with larger thermal contrasts (compared to
large bodies of water), they can't comprehend how this huge contrast in
thermal energies are fed into the atmosphere directly above the land .This
<rest of demented raving clipped>
And of course you are an expert in photography, meteorology and astronomy.
One wanders why you're posting as an unidentified troll from a well known troll
site, instead of working in Chile.
Ah yes: there are no "observatories" in florida...
BWAHAHAHA!
bwahahah right back atcha ... you know nothing of geology as well, I see.
There's a very good reason that people in FL have only built large
structures in certain locations. Even then, some eventually fall into
sink-holes.

Fuck are you ever an idiot.
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
resides. My own 16" diameter telescope mirror can take up to 3 hours to
You're confusing the mirror in your bathroom with a telescope mirror.
Careful: the aliens you're seeing are actually your nose hairs...
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
Your post is a worthy display of a perfect example of what ignorance means.
Your post is a perfect example of crass, ignorant trolling.
Ahh..., the childish comments from a troll trying to save face after just
having been proved to be the ignorant fool that he is.

Warms my heart to see this admission from you, it does.
Ray Fischer
2009-10-25 21:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
But like all useless trolls that know nothing about astronomy nor
photography, trolls who also know nothing about meteorology nor how land
cools off and heats up quicker with larger thermal contrasts (compared to
large bodies of water), they can't comprehend how this huge contrast in
thermal energies are fed into the atmosphere directly above the land .This
<rest of demented raving clipped>
And of course you are an expert in photography, meteorology and astronomy.
One wanders why you're posting as an unidentified troll from a well known troll
site, instead of working in Chile.
Ah yes: there are no "observatories" in florida...
BWAHAHAHA!
bwahahah right back atcha ... you know nothing of geology as well, I see.
And you asshole trolls simply know nothing.
--
Ray Fischer
***@sonic.net
Noons
2009-10-25 22:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
bwahahah right back atcha ... you know nothing of geology as well, I see.
STFU, idiot. You are an embarassment to mankind.
Ray Fischer
2009-10-25 05:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
Post by Eric Stevens
Hardly ever any wind. Hardly ever any rain (those clouds are
exceptional). Hardly anyone or anything for many many miles in any
direction. Lovely flat terrain over which the air flow stabilises.
Oodnadata is not an entirely silly suggestion, except for the thought
of living there.
Sounds almost perfect, doesn't it? To an ignorant troll perhaps.
And here you are! The ignorant troll!
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
But like all useless trolls
You just keep coming back.
--
Ray Fischer
***@sonic.net
Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
2009-10-25 14:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
Post by Eric Stevens
Hardly ever any wind. Hardly ever any rain (those clouds are
exceptional). Hardly anyone or anything for many many miles in any
direction. Lovely flat terrain over which the air flow stabilises.
Oodnadata is not an entirely silly suggestion, except for the thought
of living there.
Sounds almost perfect, doesn't it? To an ignorant troll perhaps.
And here you are! The ignorant troll!
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
But like all useless trolls
You just keep coming back.
All anyone need do is remind their self how your comments are in reference
to your own self. Like in the thread about no manual flash settings being
on P&S cameras, where direct evidence was given to prove you 100% wrong. In
that too you continually told your troll-self to go away after you were
proved 100% wrong.

And here you are, doing it again.
Ray Fischer
2009-10-25 21:52:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
Post by Ray Fischer
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
Post by Eric Stevens
Hardly ever any wind. Hardly ever any rain (those clouds are
exceptional). Hardly anyone or anything for many many miles in any
direction. Lovely flat terrain over which the air flow stabilises.
Oodnadata is not an entirely silly suggestion, except for the thought
of living there.
Sounds almost perfect, doesn't it? To an ignorant troll perhaps.
And here you are! The ignorant troll!
Post by Outing Ignorant Trolls Is FUN!
But like all useless trolls
You just keep coming back.
All anyone need do is
Tell you asshole trolls to go away.
--
Ray Fischer
***@sonic.net
Eric Stevens
2009-10-24 23:54:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:29:35 -0500, Look! Another Troll!
Post by Look! Another Troll!
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
decent telescope optics.
Some of the most stable pristine skies can be found in less-inhabited
regions of places like Florida, where any part of the land is only a couple
hundred miles from either coastline. The skies deep in the Everglades for
example, easily rival the night-skies you will see in some remote national
forest at the very top of the Rocky Mountains. (Viewed and photographed the
night-skies at both, so I have first-hand experience with these locations
for night-sky seeing conditions.) Ocean water has generally laminar
air-flows, most of the pollutants have dropped out of the sky--any coming
from other land-masses when airflow direction is inland. The fluctuations
in humidity levels (a killer of air quality and seeing for astronomy), are
usually much more gradual when dealing with ocean air as opposed to inland
continental air.
This is why the most favored large telescope installations are built
furthest from large land masses, as high as possible (when possible), and
surrounded by or very near the largest bodies of ocean water with
prevailing inland air-flows. This is precisely why they choose the Hawaiian
Islands for some of the larger and more advanced observatories not too long
ago. The upcoming mega-telescopes now in construction are being built near
the ocean in places like the coastal deserts in Chile near the Pacific
shore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Telescope
Since he is doing planetary imaging, light-pollution is not much of a
concern, unless he gets into the outer planets (which won't show much in a
telescope of that size anyway). Or if he'd be trying to do long exposures
in place like downtown Times-Square New-York City.
Had you said, "Pity you can't move all that gear to a coastal region
further from light pollution." Then you might have been perceived as having
an iota of credible experience with either subject, photography or
astronomy. Since you gave him the worst advice possible concerning this
field of interest, there's only one conclusion possible.
Did you learn anything today? You useless fuck of an ignorant troll.
I should have give
Loading Image... as the
URL in my previous post.



Eric Stevens
Noons
2009-10-25 01:05:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Look! Another Troll!
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
decent telescope optics.
Moron. Inland Australia is an inhabited desert, you twerp.
He lives in Australia, not your precious backwater in Florida.
You really don't have a clue what you are talking about, do you?

(rest of your crap deleted, no point in wasting time)
Bob Larter
2009-10-25 04:28:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Look! Another Troll!
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300
miles inland, eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
decent telescope optics.
Moron. Inland Australia is an inhabited desert, you twerp.
He lives in Australia, not your precious backwater in Florida.
You really don't have a clue what you are talking about, do you?
(rest of your crap deleted, no point in wasting time)
<makes popcorn>
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Noons
2009-10-25 04:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Larter
<makes popcorn>
it's wasted...
Bob Larter
2009-10-27 07:17:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
<makes popcorn>
it's wasted...
Oh, hell no - I'm enjoying the show.
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Noons
2009-10-27 09:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
<makes popcorn>
it's wasted...
Oh, hell no - I'm enjoying the show.
Hey: you guys OK with the downpour?
Bob Larter
2009-10-31 04:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
<makes popcorn>
it's wasted...
Oh, hell no - I'm enjoying the show.
Hey: you guys OK with the downpour?
What downpour?
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Noons
2009-10-31 03:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Hey: you guys OK with the downpour?
What downpour?
Floods. A week or so ago.
Bob Larter
2009-11-01 06:28:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Hey: you guys OK with the downpour?
What downpour?
Floods. A week or so ago.
Not out my way.
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Noons
2009-11-02 08:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Hey: you guys OK with the downpour?
What downpour?
Floods. A week or so ago.
Not out my way.
Sorry, forgot you Mexicans live in a different country...
;)
Bob Larter
2009-11-02 16:37:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Hey: you guys OK with the downpour?
What downpour?
Floods. A week or so ago.
Not out my way.
Sorry, forgot you Mexicans live in a different country...
;)
We *wish* we were getting floods!
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Fischer
2009-11-01 06:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Bob Larter
Post by Noons
Hey: you guys OK with the downpour?
What downpour?
Floods. A week or so ago.
A week ago we had sunny and warm around 80F. Crickets chirping at
night.

You must live in the wrong part of the world. :-)
--
Ray Fischer
***@sonic.net
Twibil
2009-10-25 06:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Larter
<makes popcorn>
Melts butter and breaks out salt while gazing at Jupe through his 13
incher.

I've got no dog in this fight as I usually observe from 8,000'+, but
heck: it's free entertainment and worth every penny.
Bob Larter
2009-10-27 07:17:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twibil
Post by Bob Larter
<makes popcorn>
Melts butter and breaks out salt while gazing at Jupe through his 13
incher.
I've got no dog in this fight as I usually observe from 8,000'+, but
heck: it's free entertainment and worth every penny.
Exactly.
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Jewell
2009-10-25 08:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Look! Another Troll!
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
decent telescope optics.
You haven't got a bloody clue do you? The best observatories
are placed where a) light pollution is minimal, b) humidity
is low, and c) altitude is high. There are a few places
where some of these conditions can be achieved relatively
close to a coastline, but for the most part these conditions
are more likely to exist inland.
Hence why Siding Springs Observatory is a very good location
- it is in a very lightly populated area so there is little
light pollution. It's location in the mid-west of NSW
generally has very low humidity and few cloudy/rainy nights,
and at an altitude of about 1200m it has 1.2km less
atmosphere to look through than if it was at sea level.
Yes, there will occasionally be dust issues, and the odd
convection problem inland, but these are minor compared to
the problems that higher coastal humidities cause - not the
least of which is fewer clear-sky nights.
Get out into the outback of Australia, and the stars twinkle
much less than they do in coastal areas. The twinkling of
course is related to the amount of atmospheric disturbance.

<snip crap from a troll who knows nothing about what he is
talking about>
--
What is the difference between a duck?
Noons
2009-10-25 10:28:22 UTC
Permalink
Hence why Siding Springs Observatory is a very good location - it is in
a very lightly populated area so there is little light pollution. It's
and of course according to the florida troll, "badly" placed because it is inland.
Get out into the outback of Australia, and the stars twinkle much less
than they do in coastal areas. The twinkling of course is related to the
amount of atmospheric disturbance.
Doug: this idiot lives in florida, usa. He's got no clue what he's talking
about when it comes to outback Australia: he doesn't even know where that is.
Don't forget his is the country where beauty queen contestants don't know which
continent Paris is in.
Don't waste your time reasoning with a troll, not worth it.
<snip crap from a troll who knows nothing about what he is talking about>
Bingo!
Look! Another Troll!
2009-10-25 14:48:17 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:39:02 +1000, Doug Jewell
Post by Doug Jewell
Post by Look! Another Troll!
Post by Noons
Post by Outing Trolls
Post by Noons
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300 miles inland,
eh? :)
Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit about
photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
What an idiot...
Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
decent telescope optics.
You haven't got a bloody clue do you? The best observatories
are placed where a) light pollution is minimal, b) humidity
is low, and c) altitude is high. There are a few places
where some of these conditions can be achieved relatively
close to a coastline, but for the most part these conditions
are more likely to exist inland.
No, only the most convenient of them are inland, for cultures that can't be
bothered with or can't afford to think globally. Inland because most of the
population has already overbred and colonized most shores, creating the
light pollution that excludes those prime locations for astronomy. That's
why the most prized locations are in such short supply. High altitude, if
possible, near large masses of ocean water, with low-population density.
Mauna Kea qualifies perfectly.

<The rest of your limited australian values and shallow reasoning, snipped.
I'm starting to think this is genetic from all those low-life criminal
morons inbreeding for so long. Your culture is providing so many
present-day examples of this.>
Jürgen Exner
2009-10-25 14:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Look! Another Troll! <***@lookingfortrolls.org> wrote:
[...]

No, it is not another troll. It is the same old boring well-known
tedious P&S troll with the agravated split-personality disorder.

jue
Noons
2009-10-25 22:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Look! Another Troll!
No, only the most convenient of them are inland, for cultures that can't be
bothered with or can't afford to think globally. Inland because most of the
population has already overbred and colonized most shores, creating the
You fogot global warming...
Post by Look! Another Troll!
<The rest of your limited australian values and shallow reasoning, snipped.
I'm starting to think this is genetic from all those low-life criminal
morons inbreeding for so long. Your culture is providing so many
present-day examples of this.>
I'm starting to think you are not only a troll but also in need of a
good serving of good manners...
k
2009-10-25 17:28:30 UTC
Permalink
where is Florida?

sounds like it must be an SA town..

k


"Look! Another Troll!" <***@lookingfortrolls.org> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
| On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:56:56 +1000, Noons <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
|
| >Outing Trolls wrote,on my timestamp of 24/10/2009 9:24 PM:
| >> On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:17:05 +1000, Noons <***@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
| >>
| >>> Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear 300
miles inland,
| >>> eh? :)
| >>
| >> Inland is worse, but then you'd know this if you knew the least bit
about
| >> photography and astronomy. Another piss poor attempt of yours to try to
| >> look like you knew something. Trolls never do.
| >>
| >
| >What an idiot...
|
| Inland *is* worse, because inland air is more unstable, has higher
| fluctuations in humidity levels, often contains more dust and particulate
| pollutants, and is downright turbulent compared to areas near ocean air.
| All are enemies of "seeing" conditions. The weakest link when you have a
| decent telescope optics.
|
| Some of the most stable pristine skies can be found in less-inhabited
| regions of places like Florida, where any part of the land is only a
couple
| hundred miles from either coastline. The skies deep in the Everglades for
| example, easily rival the night-skies you will see in some remote national
| forest at the very top of the Rocky Mountains. (Viewed and photographed
the
| night-skies at both, so I have first-hand experience with these locations
| for night-sky seeing conditions.) Ocean water has generally laminar
| air-flows, most of the pollutants have dropped out of the sky--any coming
| from other land-masses when airflow direction is inland. The fluctuations
| in humidity levels (a killer of air quality and seeing for astronomy), are
| usually much more gradual when dealing with ocean air as opposed to inland
| continental air.
|
| This is why the most favored large telescope installations are built
| furthest from large land masses, as high as possible (when possible), and
| surrounded by or very near the largest bodies of ocean water with
| prevailing inland air-flows. This is precisely why they choose the
Hawaiian
| Islands for some of the larger and more advanced observatories not too
long
| ago. The upcoming mega-telescopes now in construction are being built near
| the ocean in places like the coastal deserts in Chile near the Pacific
| shore.
|
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Telescope
|
| Since he is doing planetary imaging, light-pollution is not much of a
| concern, unless he gets into the outer planets (which won't show much in a
| telescope of that size anyway). Or if he'd be trying to do long exposures
| in place like downtown Times-Square New-York City.
|
| Had you said, "Pity you can't move all that gear to a coastal region
| further from light pollution." Then you might have been perceived as
having
| an iota of credible experience with either subject, photography or
| astronomy. Since you gave him the worst advice possible concerning this
| field of interest, there's only one conclusion possible.
|
| Did you learn anything today? You useless fuck of an ignorant troll.
|
Troy Piggins
2009-10-24 13:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Noons
Post by Troy Piggins
[---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 11 lines snipped |=---]
Post by Troy Piggins
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
Goos stuff as usual, Piggo. Pity you can't move all that gear
300 miles inland, eh? :)
Sometimes I wish I could retire in a place like Maree or
Oodnadatta and enjoy clear, cloudless skyes all year round. I
do recall reading a
newspaper in the campsite by starlight alone, no moon! Beer
(Red Back) ain't half bad over there
either... ;)
I've been to a few dark sites this last year, at new moon, not a
cloud in the sky. Got a sore neck from constantly gazing up at
the sky.
Post by Noons
Post by Troy Piggins
Yes, this image was stacked from around 2500 frames of an avi
file using Registax. Suspect that's the technique you're
referring to.
Did you get that size image from the 8" scope and sensor alone
or did you add a converter and/or digital resize?
The C8 8" f/10 schmidt cassegrain I have had a 2.5x powermate
(like a teleconvertor) on it, which gave focal length of around
5000mm. Plus the image was slightly cropped to square it up from
the sensor size of 640x480.
Post by Noons
I'm toying around with the idea of a 8" or 10" dobsonian, want
to get a feel for what's possible and what's needed. Kids have
been bugging me to get back into
this stuff...
"Aperture rules" - 10" lets in almost twice the amount of light
the 8" does ;)

Do you want it for visual observing or taking photos? If visual,
all good. If photos, slippery slope. Dobs/Newtonians might be
fine for planetary imaging, but no good unless you mount them on
equatorial mount for deep sky, long exposure shots.

If you're really keen, email me for more chats.
--
Troy Piggins
Noons
2009-10-24 14:23:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
I've been to a few dark sites this last year, at new moon, not a
cloud in the sky. Got a sore neck from constantly gazing up at
the sky.
The dry air inland makes quite a difference: very little haze.
Never cease to be amazed how clear the sky is in the desert: I've got photos of
Mt Connor at nearly 30Ks that look like the blessed thing is just 5 away.
Post by Troy Piggins
The C8 8" f/10 schmidt cassegrain I have had a 2.5x powermate
(like a teleconvertor) on it, which gave focal length of around
5000mm. Plus the image was slightly cropped to square it up from
the sensor size of 640x480.
Cool. Good luck with convincing the other half for the better camera!
Post by Troy Piggins
"Aperture rules" - 10" lets in almost twice the amount of light
the 8" does ;)
Yeah, I know. But it also increases the size and weight of the thing a lot!
:(
Post by Troy Piggins
Do you want it for visual observing or taking photos? If visual,
all good. If photos, slippery slope. Dobs/Newtonians might be
fine for planetary imaging, but no good unless you mount them on
equatorial mount for deep sky, long exposure shots.
If you're really keen, email me for more chats.
Mostly visual to start with: can't afford all the imaging stuff at the moment.
There are a few suppliers of eq mounts I can use later on once I can afford the
photography side. Figured the Dobsonians are a good priced entry point for wide
aperture visual and can be used as a base for more advanced stuff.
Thanks, I'll definitely ping you later on.
Damn 35 F. Rain - Staying Warm Inside Is Winning Today
2009-10-23 16:19:52 UTC
Permalink
(silly typo correction)
Post by Troy Piggins
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
Taken with a 8" f/10 scope with a 2.5x powermate (like a
teleconvertor) giving it an equivalent focal length of around
5000mm. Camera was a DBK21 CCD camera.
The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
Much depends too on "seeing" conditions. The atmospheric stability. Most
times you just have to wait and hope for the best days. The very same
perfectly collimated optics can provide a jaw-dropping 3D-looking view of
Saturn one day, and an irregular mushy blob the next. Look into the
sharpening techniques that web-cam astrophotographers use, by combining
details from many many frames to virtually look through the turbulent
atmosphere, capturing and combining those bits of each image that are
stable and sharp.

You might also try stopping down the aperture of your telescope during bad
seeing conditions. A larger aperture means that your telescope is trying to
image through larger lower-frequency areas of atmospheric turbulence. If
the turbulence that night is mostly of the lower-frequency variety it will
help to filter it out. I keep a 6" mask handy for those times to put on my
16" scope. Apodizing masks also cure things on some days for planetary
imaging.
Rich
2009-10-23 17:37:23 UTC
Permalink
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately.  This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging.  Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
Taken with a 8" f/10 scope with a 2.5x powermate (like a
teleconvertor) giving it an equivalent focal length of around
5000mm.  Camera was a DBK21 CCD camera.
The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it.  Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
--
Troy Piggins
You need at least 25,000mm to really shoot Jupiter. Nice shot at
5000mm though.
Troy Piggins
2009-10-23 21:30:59 UTC
Permalink
[---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 14 lines snipped |=---]
Post by Troy Piggins
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
You need at least 25,000mm to really shoot Jupiter. Nice shot at
5000mm though.
Anthony Wesley, the guy who discovered the that most recent
impact scar on Jupiter, takes these sort of shots with an
effective focal length of around 9000mm.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65884&d=1256210105

I'd be extremely happy if I can get anywhere near as good as
that. Have you ever tried to image with something of the sort of
focal lengths you're suggesting with back-yard amatuer gear? I'd
love to see examples.
--
Troy Piggins
Damn 35 F. Rain - Staying Warm Inside Is Winning Today
2009-10-24 03:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
[---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 14 lines snipped |=---]
Post by Troy Piggins
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
You need at least 25,000mm to really shoot Jupiter. Nice shot at
5000mm though.
Anthony Wesley, the guy who discovered the that most recent
impact scar on Jupiter, takes these sort of shots with an
effective focal length of around 9000mm.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=65884&d=1256210105
I'd be extremely happy if I can get anywhere near as good as
that. Have you ever tried to image with something of the sort of
focal lengths you're suggesting with back-yard amatuer gear? I'd
love to see examples.
Don't mind Rich, he's just a troll that regurgitates what he's read other
trolls invent, or he himself invents. He doesn't even own a camera, much
less a telescope. Proved many times by many people. He's only here to play
"pretend" with his role-play life, using bits and snippets of info that he
happens to find anywhere on the net. He believes anything he reads on the
net, with no real-life experience to know the difference of when he's being
bullshitted.
GregS
2009-10-23 19:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
Taken with a 8" f/10 scope with a 2.5x powermate (like a
teleconvertor) giving it an equivalent focal length of around
5000mm. Camera was a DBK21 CCD camera.
The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.
You got a spot on your lens !

greg
Jeff R.
2009-10-23 22:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
Taken with a 8" f/10 scope with a 2.5x powermate (like a
teleconvertor) giving it an equivalent focal length of around
5000mm. Camera was a DBK21 CCD camera.
The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.Nice one, Troy.
Beats my webcam-through-ETX attempt (of ten years ago):
Loading Image...

Since yours is 2500 stacked images, how come the moon is a dot, not a line?
:-)

--
Jeff R.
Troy Piggins
2009-10-23 22:17:12 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Troy Piggins
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.Nice one, Troy.
http://faxmentis.org/html/jpg/jupiter-7-11-99.jpg
Still, not bad :)
Since yours is 2500 stacked images, how come the moon is a dot, not a line?
:-)
They were taken over 90 seconds ;) Not sure, but suspect even
that may have been too long. Maybe should have kept it down to
60 secs or so. Jupiter spins so fast you have to get in and get
out real quick, so you're using as fast a fps as you can get.
Some guys are shooting 45-60fps. The avi file size I took for
this was 1.5GB! Just to get a measly little 15kB image!
--
Troy Piggins
Jeff R.
2009-10-23 22:24:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
[---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 11 lines snipped |=---]
Post by Troy Piggins
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
All up I'm pretty happy with it. Suspect the scope needs some
tweaking of the collimation which should give a sharper image.
Will have to try that next time, haven't done it before.Nice one, Troy.
http://faxmentis.org/html/jpg/jupiter-7-11-99.jpg
Still, not bad :)
Since yours is 2500 stacked images, how come the moon is a dot, not
a line? :-)
They were taken over 90 seconds ;) Not sure, but suspect even
that may have been too long. Maybe should have kept it down to
60 secs or so. Jupiter spins so fast you have to get in and get
out real quick, so you're using as fast a fps as you can get.
Some guys are shooting 45-60fps. The avi file size I took for
this was 1.5GB! Just to get a measly little 15kB image!
Cooled camera?
Hand or auto-guided?
Suburban location? Country?

(fun, idd'n it!)

--
Jeff R.
Troy Piggins
2009-10-23 23:46:06 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Troy Piggins
that may have been too long. Maybe should have kept it down to
60 secs or so. Jupiter spins so fast you have to get in and get
out real quick, so you're using as fast a fps as you can get.
Some guys are shooting 45-60fps. The avi file size I took for
this was 1.5GB! Just to get a measly little 15kB image!
Cooled camera?
Nope. This one:
http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/cameras/usb-ccd-bayer/dbk21au04/

I'm considering (don't tell my wife) a cooled CCD for longer
exposure, deep sky stuff. They're the duck's nuts. But won't be
getting the top of the line ones. They go for $10k or multiples
thereof. Reckon something like this will do me:

http://web.aanet.com.au/~gama/QHY8.html
Hand or auto-guided?
No guiding. Not for 90 secs or so. Mount was just tracking
sidereal rate on its own.
Suburban location? Country?
Centre of Brisbane. Don't think you could find a much more light
polluted location in Queensland :(

Fortunately light pollution doesn't seem to affect planetary
imaging so much because the targets are so bright. I'm talking
Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars, even Mercury here. For Uranus and
Neptune you use more deep sky imaging techniques I think - longer
exposures and light pollution does come into it a bit.

This sort of stuff it's more about atmospheric conditions, the
jetstream, and scope focus and collimation. I have yet to come
to terms with tweaking all that.
(fun, idd'n it!)
Oh, ya!
--
Troy Piggins
Jeff R.
2009-10-24 00:55:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
Post by Jeff R.
Cooled camera?
http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/cameras/usb-ccd-bayer/dbk21au04/
I'm considering (don't tell my wife) a cooled CCD for longer
exposure, deep sky stuff. They're the duck's nuts. But won't be
getting the top of the line ones. They go for $10k or multiples
http://web.aanet.com.au/~gama/QHY8.html
Long time since I knew much about them things.
ISTR colour didn't exist, and you had to use filters and three exposures
with a mono unit.
I have patience, but not that much.

Waddy'a reckon that unit would retail for?
(Any point in asking if you've tried a DSLR ?)
Post by Troy Piggins
Post by Jeff R.
Hand or auto-guided?
No guiding. Not for 90 secs or so. Mount was just tracking
sidereal rate on its own.
Fairy nuff.
Post by Troy Piggins
This sort of stuff it's more about atmospheric conditions, the
jetstream, and scope focus and collimation. I have yet to come
to terms with tweaking all that.
Even with all that, don't neglect widefield stuff.
Point your camera somewhere around Crux, and do a wide-angle shot for a few
minutes (piggy-backed, of course) and the results will astound!

I couldn't believe how much I could see in a short exposure, even here in
the 'burbs where the clouds light up like fireworks from the streetlights.
Post by Troy Piggins
Post by Jeff R.
(fun, idd'n it!)
Oh, ya!
:-)

--
Jeff R.
Troy Piggins
2009-10-24 12:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff R.
Post by Troy Piggins
Post by Jeff R.
Cooled camera?
http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/cameras/usb-ccd-bayer/dbk21au04/
I'm considering (don't tell my wife) a cooled CCD for longer
exposure, deep sky stuff. They're the duck's nuts. But won't be
getting the top of the line ones. They go for $10k or multiples
http://web.aanet.com.au/~gama/QHY8.html
Long time since I knew much about them things.
ISTR colour didn't exist, and you had to use filters and three exposures
with a mono unit.
I have patience, but not that much.
All of the high end, top astro imagers still use the mono sensor
cameras with filters - the cameras are much more sensitive
because each pixel is really a pixel, instead of divided into
RGGB.
Post by Jeff R.
Waddy'a reckon that unit would retail for?
It's around $3k for the one I want.
Post by Jeff R.
(Any point in asking if you've tried a DSLR ?)
I've been using a 40D for deep sky stuff to date - galaxies,
nebulae, globular and open star clusters. Much cheaper
alternative to the above CCDs, but don't have the quantum
efficiency, well depth, sensitivity, antiblooming, etc bells and
whistles that the CCDs do. But coming from a photography
background, much easier to translate over.

My 40D is modified - they remove the UV/IR filter off the sensor
and replace it with clear glass. Makes it much more sensitive to
IR light spectrum which is what a lot of deep sky, esp nebulae,
emit.

If I get a chance to process and upload some of my deep sky
images, I'll post links taken with 40D.

That DBK21 camera I took Jupiter with, would never use it for
deep sky stuff, only planetary or using it as a guide camera.
Post by Jeff R.
Post by Troy Piggins
Post by Jeff R.
Hand or auto-guided?
No guiding. Not for 90 secs or so. Mount was just tracking
sidereal rate on its own.
Fairy nuff.
Post by Troy Piggins
This sort of stuff it's more about atmospheric conditions, the
jetstream, and scope focus and collimation. I have yet to come
to terms with tweaking all that.
Even with all that, don't neglect widefield stuff.
Point your camera somewhere around Crux, and do a wide-angle shot for a few
minutes (piggy-backed, of course) and the results will astound!
I couldn't believe how much I could see in a short exposure, even here in
the 'burbs where the clouds light up like fireworks from the streetlights.
I've got some narrowband filters - Ha, OIII, SII (these refer to
narrow bands of wavelengths of light emitted from certain
nebulae). They cut out heaps of the light pollution because they
only let extremely narrow band of wavelengths of light through.

My intention is to shoot planetary or narrow band shots from home
here, and when I get to "dark" sites (remote and no light
pollution) I'll do the colour imaging.
--
Troy Piggins
Ray Fischer
2009-10-24 02:31:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
Taken with a 8" f/10 scope with a 2.5x powermate (like a
teleconvertor) giving it an equivalent focal length of around
5000mm. Camera was a DBK21 CCD camera.
The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
Pretty nice for an 8" scope. Single shot or composite?
--
Ray Fischer
***@sonic.net
Troy Piggins
2009-10-24 13:08:27 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Troy Piggins
The dark spot is the shadow of one of the moons, and you can just
make out the Great Red Spot at the top.
http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2009/2009_10_23/Jupiter091023_1.jpg
Pretty nice for an 8" scope. Single shot or composite?
It's a stacked image from the best of around 2500 frames taken
from a 90 second avi file. Not an easy answer :)
--
Troy Piggins
stuff
2009-10-25 21:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troy Piggins
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
You might like to subscribe to

alt.binaries.pictures.astro

During special events, like passages of comets, it's hard to keep up with
all that's posted and discussed there.
Troy Piggins
2009-10-25 22:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by stuff
Post by Troy Piggins
The astrophotography has been keeping me occupied lately. This
is my first attempt at planetary imaging. Lots to learn, I know.
Don't see much astrophotography here so thought I'd share.
You might like to subscribe to
alt.binaries.pictures.astro
During special events, like passages of comets, it's hard to keep up with
all that's posted and discussed there.
Thanks mate. I stick to text only groups. I find Ice In Space,
Cloudy Nights, and even Photography On The Net forums sufficient
to supplement my ever-decreasing USENET time.
--
Troy Piggins
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